I N T E R V I E W

  I know you have read my article on environmental training in Central and Eastern Europe. Do you have any comments? Are there any related issue you would like to raise?

  I was excited about your article because I have not yet encountered a paper which looks at the specialities of this field in Central Europe - although I have been involved in environmental training design and facilitation since 1991. I like your article for many reasons. Especially for its provocative voice. I found it exciting to read statements which were meant to trigger further thoughts and hopefully dialogues within the community of environmental trainers. Unfortunately dialogue is not a common practice in the teaching/learning process in Central and Eastern Europe. You wonder why. But dialogue, which is one of the oldest cooperative learning methods - just think of the classic dialogues by Plato and Socrates - has significant power to motivate people for critical thinking. It makes them more willing to participate in decisions they are or might be involved in. What I appreciate best in the whole EMTC Network is its commitment to support participation. Your article is a good example of how you can do it in a creative way.

  A related issue? I would mention the relationship between participation and self-esteem. I would refer here to your statement about unlearning. I agree with you that we have to unlearn many repressive behavioral habits so as to better participate in decision-making. But I also want to emphasize the importance of all the initial learning of valuing ourselves as individuals. Real participation only happens when cooperating individuals have a healthy, high self-esteem. I have just understood why environmental training is so popular in Central and Eastern Europe. It is not because of the growing awareness of environmental problems. It is due to the fact that the learning approaches of this training significantly increase the self-esteem of the learner. By the end of the training, participants feel better about themselves, they are more open to interactions and ready to take risks. It is widely acknowledged that the roots of many social and environmental problems in Central Europe is low self-esteem. The learning approaches of environmental training encourage self-discovery, which results in higher self-awareness, and by using active/cooperative learning involve the whole personality of the learner. In this way, environmental training increases the desire for lifelong learning, which creates an ongoing interplay between self-discovery and learning about the big "outside world."

  Do you agree with the statement that environmental training in Central and Eastern Europe needs to be reorganized?

  Yes, certainly, both in content and learning style. Also, the institutional background needs to be established. How? Through cooperation among research institutes, NGO, governmental authorities and the business sector.

  If you accept my own, EMTC Network definition of environmental training as an out-of-school, non-formal, lifelong education in a specific field, what do you see as major issues in this field?

  The first issue is the lack of motivation to continue learning. This is because the whole formal education system is designed for learning to work, not learning for life, for sustainability. After all, sustainability is what life is all about, is it not? Furthermore, adult education in this region is weak or too specialized and technical. Environmental training as you define it, is a form of adult, continuing education. So, as your article expresses in a beautiful way, there is a major need in this region for strengthening adult education. People are not aware of their opportunities and the potentials of such an education.

  The second significant issue is that the basic knowledge and practice of experiential learning is still mostly unknown in this region. You can see how professionals attending environmental trainings do enjoy learning through first-hand experience. They enjoy like a child participatory approaches such as the classic problem-solving games. These activities remind people of play, which is something they love, but would not associate with learning in adulthood. We all accept that children learn about themselves and the world around them while they play. Why would this way of learning stop at entering adulthood?

  One of the crucial points of the article is the unlearning process through which organizations should go: they should unlearn old concepts, break the stereotypes. In fact, this ought to be part of their learning experience: they should take care of their staff's continuing education and bring learning into the workplace. It is particularly important in view of the rapid changes taking place in the environmental field. One may call such an organization - a learning organization. What is your opinion on this new type of workplace?

  Good organizations are always learning organizations, where any kind of learning is valued and change is welcome. Unlearning is basically challenging the old concept of "if we do not change, everything will be fine." Ideally, there should be a balance between stability and change, which leads us to the idea of sustainable development. What are the requisites for becoming a good learning organization? To welcome change, value learning and learn how we are learning. The latter is particularly difficult because of the lack of a basic psychological culture in this region. Psychology has been up to now little known and unwelcome. This causes major communication problems, as people do not know the basics of interaction, feedback techniques, listening and negotiation skills. Environmental training is about effective communication and cooperation. This is not a problem for environmental professionals only, but for the whole of society. So it is not a particular problem you are addressing but a much wider issue.

  Recently I read an interview with James Lovelock in Newsweek. According to him, we protect the environment, not so much to save the planet, but to save ourselves from extinction. Do you agree with this view?

  Yes, entirely. We, humans, would like to save ourselves. We are interested in the survival of habitats, individual species, etc., as long as they contribute to our own survival. This is not a question of good or evil, but of understanding our limits and potentials in a wide context. This holds true for the whole discussion about social and global sustainability. This is where the "unlearning" process comes into play again: we have to unlearn not to value ourselves, to have a low self-esteem. Only on such bases can communication and cooperation be built. Self-esteem, communication and global-awareness form a circle or spiral in my interpretation of environmental awareness.

  How do you think this can be addressed at environmental training courses?

  The main issue is how to ensure that the learning outcome of successful trainings are really transferred to life situations. Most of the time participants do not know how to apply their learning. We must have a consistent, conscious approach to adult education. We need to raise participants's awareness of their real needs through the use of Maslow's "Pyramid of Needs." We must provide them with a safe environment which fosters self-value and a sense of belongingness. The process of the training is as important as its content. We have to do a good job on the follow-ups of trainings, to make the link between the training event and how the lessons learned can contribute to sustainability at different levels - from personal to global.

  I am not saying that it is easy to do, because it is a lot to digest for a training participant. But on the whole, it results in successful environmental trainings since participants feel they are ready for lifelong learning.

  A final word?...

  Well, just think once more of the interrelation between self-, social-, and environmental awareness.